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	<title>Comments on: Can We Drop the Curtain and Just Talk, O-Live?</title>
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	<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/</link>
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		<title>By: Brenda Clark</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-943</guid>
		<description>Putting in a comment a little late on this discussion because I couldn&#039;t convince myself to go look at the &quot;new&quot; OregonLive -- now that I have I&#039;ll continue avoiding it.  Objectively perhaps it&#039;s a little better, but I still find it a maddening place to try to find anything -- even with a degree in library science.  Every time I need to do research on something that &quot;may&quot; have been in The Oregonian, I look everywhere else there is to look first.  

I do subscribe (still) to the print version of The O because I like newspapers -- but I wouldn&#039;t go to O-Live every day -- there are better ways to raise my blood pressure.

&quot;Interact&quot; is just not a label I want to click on.  It also appears that this redesign is not specific to O-Live.  I was poking around in the breaking news section and ended up on the site for the Times-Picayune which looks exactly like O-Live, including the Interact tab.  http://www.nola.com/   Owned by the same company I assume.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting in a comment a little late on this discussion because I couldn&#8217;t convince myself to go look at the &#8220;new&#8221; OregonLive &#8212; now that I have I&#8217;ll continue avoiding it.  Objectively perhaps it&#8217;s a little better, but I still find it a maddening place to try to find anything &#8212; even with a degree in library science.  Every time I need to do research on something that &#8220;may&#8221; have been in The Oregonian, I look everywhere else there is to look first.  </p>
<p>I do subscribe (still) to the print version of The O because I like newspapers &#8212; but I wouldn&#8217;t go to O-Live every day &#8212; there are better ways to raise my blood pressure.</p>
<p>&#8220;Interact&#8221; is just not a label I want to click on.  It also appears that this redesign is not specific to O-Live.  I was poking around in the breaking news section and ended up on the site for the Times-Picayune which looks exactly like O-Live, including the Interact tab.  <a href="http://www.nola.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nola.com/</a>   Owned by the same company I assume.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Walter</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-891</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-891</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-888&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@rich brueckner&lt;/a&gt; - Just install FireFox&#039;s Adblock addon.  No more ads!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-888' rel="nofollow">@rich brueckner</a> &#8211; Just install FireFox&#8217;s Adblock addon.  No more ads!</p>
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		<title>By: rich brueckner</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-888</link>
		<dc:creator>rich brueckner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 03:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-888</guid>
		<description>This is a major leap forward. Their design has gone from being 15 years out of date to more like five years out of date now.

And for the love of god, please Just Say No to those flashing GIF ads. Crikey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a major leap forward. Their design has gone from being 15 years out of date to more like five years out of date now.</p>
<p>And for the love of god, please Just Say No to those flashing GIF ads. Crikey!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Woodward</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Woodward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-859</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&#039;#comment-855&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Metroknow&lt;/a&gt; - Love the blacksmith link. Shoulda known someone would call me out on it as soon as I wrote it. Sorry, all you blacksmiths!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='#comment-855' rel="nofollow">@Metroknow</a> &#8211; Love the blacksmith link. Shoulda known someone would call me out on it as soon as I wrote it. Sorry, all you blacksmiths!</p>
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		<title>By: Jmartens</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>Jmartens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-856</guid>
		<description>It almost doesn&#039;t even matter if the O and O-Live are or aren&#039;t the same entity: in the eyes of readers they are. They have positioned themselves as one in the same. So no matter what anyone says about them being seperate, they are one to the consumer.

If I were the Oregonian, I&#039;d dump O-Live faster than you can say &quot;strange, new world&quot;. they&#039;d have nothing without the O&#039;s content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It almost doesn&#8217;t even matter if the O and O-Live are or aren&#8217;t the same entity: in the eyes of readers they are. They have positioned themselves as one in the same. So no matter what anyone says about them being seperate, they are one to the consumer.</p>
<p>If I were the Oregonian, I&#8217;d dump O-Live faster than you can say &#8220;strange, new world&#8221;. they&#8217;d have nothing without the O&#8217;s content.</p>
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		<title>By: Metroknow</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Metroknow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-855</guid>
		<description>Oh, and one more thing - Steve: http://www.blacksmithsjournal.com/top/

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and one more thing &#8211; Steve: <a href="http://www.blacksmithsjournal.com/top/" rel="nofollow">http://www.blacksmithsjournal.com/top/</a></p>
<p> <img src='http://ourpdx.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Metroknow</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>Metroknow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-854</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post, and the illuminating comments. Honestly I didn&#039;t even know that O Live had changed format, because I frankly will use just about anything else to find information. I think the only resources that are worse are the online yellow pages directories. Love the &quot;10 pounds of information&quot; phrase. Exactly.

BUT, in fairness, I didn&#039;t know that the Oregonian and O-Live were separate entities, and that explains a whole hell of a lot. The reader&#039;s digest approach to news on O-Live was a gigantic turnoff to me; I am a subscriber to the dead tree delivery service, and I often found articles or photos in the paper that I wanted to share with friends, only to give up quickly when it wasn&#039;t on O-Live. My assumption, obviously unfairly, was that it was yet another case of the Clueless Online Oregonian organization missing the boat, yet again.

For this assumption, I apologize. 

Thanks Steve and Betsy for the clarification. 

However, I still agree with Paul above - get the frickin&#039; paper online, under the paper&#039;s control. Change your revenue model. Survive. It&#039;s what everyone is doing these days. Quit making excuses and buck up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post, and the illuminating comments. Honestly I didn&#8217;t even know that O Live had changed format, because I frankly will use just about anything else to find information. I think the only resources that are worse are the online yellow pages directories. Love the &#8220;10 pounds of information&#8221; phrase. Exactly.</p>
<p>BUT, in fairness, I didn&#8217;t know that the Oregonian and O-Live were separate entities, and that explains a whole hell of a lot. The reader&#8217;s digest approach to news on O-Live was a gigantic turnoff to me; I am a subscriber to the dead tree delivery service, and I often found articles or photos in the paper that I wanted to share with friends, only to give up quickly when it wasn&#8217;t on O-Live. My assumption, obviously unfairly, was that it was yet another case of the Clueless Online Oregonian organization missing the boat, yet again.</p>
<p>For this assumption, I apologize. </p>
<p>Thanks Steve and Betsy for the clarification. </p>
<p>However, I still agree with Paul above &#8211; get the frickin&#8217; paper online, under the paper&#8217;s control. Change your revenue model. Survive. It&#8217;s what everyone is doing these days. Quit making excuses and buck up.</p>
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		<title>By: Betsy Richter</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-853</link>
		<dc:creator>Betsy Richter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-853</guid>
		<description>Actually, that&#039;s the problem in a nutshell:  OregonLive and The Oregonian aren&#039;t the same.   Two different companies.  Two different staffs (back in the day, newspaper people weren&#039;t supposed to even talk to O-Live people, and vice-versa, for example.)  Two related - but different - online agendas.  

I thought at the time when I came here 10 years ago that segmenting the online operation out from the print paper made sense on a bunch of different levels.  I was wrong - on a bunch of different levels.  And 10 years later, it&#039;s clear to me that the bastardized hybrid model just isn&#039;t working.  

There are always people who will be disappointed that OregonLive isn&#039;t an online newspaper, and angry that they can&#039;t find everything in the print version online as well.  Still others will get annoyed at having to wade through those pesky newspaper articles to get at the stuff they&#039;re really interested in. 

Sure, it&#039;s clearly working well for some people - and they&#039;re the silent majority that will never call The O to thank the carrier for getting the paper on the front porch by 6 am every morning.  They&#039;re also not going to jump in and add positive comments to a blog post like this one, either.  The rest of us?  We&#039;re the loud, vocal minority - using O-Live for what we can while bitching every step of the way.  

But I also have to say this:  right now, the OregonLive site (thanks to Reddit) is the single biggest referrer into OurPDX.  Bigger than ORBlogs, bigger than Twitter - in fact, it&#039;s tossing far more people our way than even Bojack does...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, that&#8217;s the problem in a nutshell:  OregonLive and The Oregonian aren&#8217;t the same.   Two different companies.  Two different staffs (back in the day, newspaper people weren&#8217;t supposed to even talk to O-Live people, and vice-versa, for example.)  Two related &#8211; but different &#8211; online agendas.  </p>
<p>I thought at the time when I came here 10 years ago that segmenting the online operation out from the print paper made sense on a bunch of different levels.  I was wrong &#8211; on a bunch of different levels.  And 10 years later, it&#8217;s clear to me that the bastardized hybrid model just isn&#8217;t working.  </p>
<p>There are always people who will be disappointed that OregonLive isn&#8217;t an online newspaper, and angry that they can&#8217;t find everything in the print version online as well.  Still others will get annoyed at having to wade through those pesky newspaper articles to get at the stuff they&#8217;re really interested in. </p>
<p>Sure, it&#8217;s clearly working well for some people &#8211; and they&#8217;re the silent majority that will never call The O to thank the carrier for getting the paper on the front porch by 6 am every morning.  They&#8217;re also not going to jump in and add positive comments to a blog post like this one, either.  The rest of us?  We&#8217;re the loud, vocal minority &#8211; using O-Live for what we can while bitching every step of the way.  </p>
<p>But I also have to say this:  right now, the OregonLive site (thanks to Reddit) is the single biggest referrer into OurPDX.  Bigger than ORBlogs, bigger than Twitter &#8211; in fact, it&#8217;s tossing far more people our way than even Bojack does&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Woodward</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Woodward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-852</guid>
		<description>I meant to say a single industry that HASN&#039;T been affected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant to say a single industry that HASN&#8217;T been affected.</p>
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		<title>By: Jmartens</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2008/08/can-we-drop-the-curtain-and-just-talk-o-live/comment-page-1/#comment-851</link>
		<dc:creator>Jmartens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=384#comment-851</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to clarify that in my mind, O-Live and The Oregonian are one in the same.

That&#039;ll probably start a whole other debate!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to clarify that in my mind, O-Live and The Oregonian are one in the same.</p>
<p>That&#8217;ll probably start a whole other debate!</p>
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