Comments on: WMTM Redux: Founder Ron Buel Responds http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/ Collaborative coverage of news and events, with a focus on community. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:46:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Making the most of making the media | Lascher at Large http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-8223 Making the most of making the media | Lascher at Large Fri, 25 Dec 2009 06:05:30 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-8223 [...] There really has been a false dichotomy set up between an “old guard” and young technophiles in some of the responses to the event. Responding to (and defending) the event was Ron Buel, who, disappointingly perpetuated the idea that there were two camps at the event (Buel’s commentary is also available on OurPDX): [...] [...] There really has been a false dichotomy set up between an “old guard” and young technophiles in some of the responses to the event. Responding to (and defending) the event was Ron Buel, who, disappointingly perpetuated the idea that there were two camps at the event (Buel’s commentary is also available on OurPDX): [...]

]]> By: Michael Andersen http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7956 Michael Andersen Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:57:09 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7956 I'm really glad you weighed back in, Ron. I hope you're right about the revenue potential for quality local video. And of course everyone would be overjoyed if people now pursuing a VoSD-like news outlet can find their footing and funding. (And I'm pretty sure it'd have no shortage of cynical journalist applicants; to herd cats, move the food.) I'm trying to put my energy into the "incubator" project and into my own small startup, but I'd like to stay abreast of the "new entity" efforts, at least enough to know if I can be of any help at some later date. Does anyone know the best way to follow this? I’m really glad you weighed back in, Ron. I hope you’re right about the revenue potential for quality local video. And of course everyone would be overjoyed if people now pursuing a VoSD-like news outlet can find their footing and funding. (And I’m pretty sure it’d have no shortage of cynical journalist applicants; to herd cats, move the food.)

I’m trying to put my energy into the “incubator” project and into my own small startup, but I’d like to stay abreast of the “new entity” efforts, at least enough to know if I can be of any help at some later date. Does anyone know the best way to follow this?

]]> By: Rebecca Gerendasy http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7955 Rebecca Gerendasy Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:04:29 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7955 Thanks for speaking 'from the heart' here, Ron. I was shaking my head throughout the conference (silly me, left my laptop at home) for many different reasons, many of which have been repeatedly rehashed on different blog posts and tweets. I stand with TA - I think 25 is an outstanding number...and be sure there are more who will be on board once they know what that board is. Though I left 3/4 of the way through, I am excited about what has evolved outside of the conference. And, like Dennis mentioned, I wouldn't focus too much on the age. I definitely fit into the older camp, but have been posting/distributing video stories for over 3 years on the internet and have embraced most forms of social media as they arose. The resulting incubator idea may not have been your intent, but I'm very excited about its prospects and possibilities - and looking forward to collaborating and sharing 'space' with other journalists, writers, bloggers, and content creators. And, it will be very interesting to see what kind of new business model arises from this new kind of journalism. Thanks for speaking ‘from the heart’ here, Ron. I was shaking my head throughout the conference (silly me, left my laptop at home) for many different reasons, many of which have been repeatedly rehashed on different blog posts and tweets.

I stand with TA – I think 25 is an outstanding number…and be sure there are more who will be on board once they know what that board is. Though I left 3/4 of the way through, I am excited about what has evolved outside of the conference. And, like Dennis mentioned, I wouldn’t focus too much on the age. I definitely fit into the older camp, but have been posting/distributing video stories for over 3 years on the internet and have embraced most forms of social media as they arose.

The resulting incubator idea may not have been your intent, but I’m very excited about its prospects and possibilities – and looking forward to collaborating and sharing ’space’ with other journalists, writers, bloggers, and content creators. And, it will be very interesting to see what kind of new business model arises from this new kind of journalism.

]]> By: Dennis Newman http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7950 Dennis Newman Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:49:42 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7950 It's a shame that so many of the comments following the We Make The Media conference have been focused on the divide between the younger and older people in the room. I know some of the people in the "younger" group. They are hard working professionals who are just as dedicated to journalism as I am. Then there are those in the "older" group who really do get, or are at least trying to learn about blogging, Facebook, Twitter and other forms of social media. We realize the ground is shifting and we're trying to make sense of it. Speaking as one of the old farts, I think this is one of the most exciting times ever to be a journalist. I agree that the "divide" is important, and something we need to acknowledge. But the obsession with it, and the self righteousness of some the comments serves no good purpose. All they do is pump up the egos of the people who said those things. What we have here is a great opportunity to learn from each other. Every person I heard speak at the conference had something useful to say, even when I didn't agree with it. The "old white guys" who got this thing off the ground deserve our thanks because, if nothing else, they got us thinking about the future of journalism and after achieving that stepped out of the way. The "young and hip" group deserves our thanks because they reminded us that the future is not just about new technology, but new ways of how we interact with that technology, with viewers and with each other. It’s a shame that so many of the comments following the We Make The Media conference have been focused on the divide between the younger and older people in the room.

I know some of the people in the “younger” group. They are hard working professionals who are just as dedicated to journalism as I am.

Then there are those in the “older” group who really do get, or are at least trying to learn about blogging, Facebook, Twitter and other forms of social media. We realize the ground is shifting and we’re trying to make sense of it.

Speaking as one of the old farts, I think this is one of the most exciting times ever to be a journalist.

I agree that the “divide” is important, and something we need to acknowledge. But the obsession with it, and the self righteousness of some the comments serves no good purpose. All they do is pump up the egos of the people who said those things.

What we have here is a great opportunity to learn from each other. Every person I heard speak at the conference had something useful to say, even when I didn’t agree with it.

The “old white guys” who got this thing off the ground deserve our thanks because, if nothing else, they got us thinking about the future of journalism and after achieving that stepped out of the way.

The “young and hip” group deserves our thanks because they reminded us that the future is not just about new technology, but new ways of how we interact with that technology, with viewers and with each other.

]]> By: t.a. barnhart http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7940 t.a. barnhart Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:38:10 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7940 ha! Joe Smith, silent? polite, yes; silent, no. seriously, if 25 out of 130 people remain active post-conference, i think that's a good ratio. especially given who the 25 are and what their goals are. "incubator" is a term that's been used by a number of folks, and the conference itself served as a great incubator. for me, it opened up doors that i might never have even known about; the possibilities for my future, because of WMTM, are pretty incredible. thanks for doing this and making possible all that is going to follow. ha! Joe Smith, silent? polite, yes; silent, no.

seriously, if 25 out of 130 people remain active post-conference, i think that’s a good ratio. especially given who the 25 are and what their goals are. “incubator” is a term that’s been used by a number of folks, and the conference itself served as a great incubator. for me, it opened up doors that i might never have even known about; the possibilities for my future, because of WMTM, are pretty incredible. thanks for doing this and making possible all that is going to follow.

]]> By: Ron Buel http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7939 Ron Buel Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:45:29 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7939 Thanks for the words of encouragement from those who offered them above. What needs to be done in Portland, IMHO, is something that IS very difficult to achieve. In the last dozen years since leaving Nike, I've been involved in several entrepreneurial efforts. Putting together something new for Portland that makes a difference will involve months of hard work by many -- before start-up. People will want to get paid for their journalism, and money has to be raised to that end. It's true that publishing on the Internet is much less expensive than printing on dead trees and trucking them around. So if you talk to Kramer at MinnPost or Donohue & Lewis at Voice of San Diego, you discover that almost their whole budgets go into salaries, and they both are spending more than $1 million a year on staff, Kramer in his second year and Donohue and Lewis in their fourth in San Diego. I see where my friend David Brewster of Crosscut in Seattle is starting his non-profit with about $250,000, including $100,000 from Gates' Foundation -- that's not enough in my opinion. What I like about Voice of San Diego is that it asks to be judged on its work, on the quality of its investigative and enterprise reporting. That's what I think should happen in whatever comes out of this conference in Portland. I know there were a lot of quiet people who were present at the conference who are bloggers and freelancers and who love the independence of doing their own journalism, or perhaps they were recently laid off or took buy-outs, or were recent graduates from J School. People who love the craft should be MOST interested in finding a way for the community to fund and sustain the most important part of the journalism we're losing in Portland, and believe me, we will continue to lose it in the next decade. Demographics don't lie about that. It was perhaps naive and un-sophisticated of me to expect those who showed up at this conference to both recognize this need and all want to help. I WAS and AM disappointed that there are but 25 people who are working forward on the two groups going for the creation of a new entity to do this work. I fully support, however, the creation of an incubator and the "let a thousand flowers bloom" approach, and would like to help however I can in that lower-cost, more immediate effort. In my mind, funding is needed both places. I know a big, new democratically-created non-profit entity coming out of an open public conference is more than a little idealistic, and that the conference was frustrating to more than me. Even though I don't like most of the journalism practiced today at the Portland Tribune and The Oregonian, and even though I detest the Pamplin/Clark politics, I think Steve Clark is right in a way -- we have to continue to think about how we can get the "market" to monetize what is needed. Hence, my own belief in video journalism on the Internet AND on TV for this new non-profit organization. TV is where the money is today in PDX, not in Internet advertising and not so much in print advertising. It felt good to write what I wrote on the WMTM website about the division in the conference, but it was perhaps self-indulgent. I know it is in the best interest of the community that divides of culture and age and gender and race be overcome and minimized wherever possible. It would be miraculous to see young and old come together to do the right things in Portland. I much admire the Bus Project where this actually happens. Incidentally, Joe Smith and I are not baby boomers like the 47-year-old who writes above. We are in the Silent Generation. Just for the record. We are REALLY old white guys. Thanks for the words of encouragement from those who offered them above.
What needs to be done in Portland, IMHO, is something that IS very difficult to achieve. In the last dozen years since leaving Nike, I’ve been involved in several entrepreneurial efforts. Putting together something new for Portland that makes a difference will involve months of hard work by many — before start-up. People will want to get paid for their journalism, and money has to be raised to that end. It’s true that publishing on the Internet is much less expensive than printing on dead trees and trucking them around. So if you talk to Kramer at MinnPost or Donohue & Lewis at Voice of San Diego, you discover that almost their whole budgets go into salaries, and they both are spending more than $1 million a year on staff, Kramer in his second year and Donohue and Lewis in their fourth in San Diego. I see where my friend David Brewster of Crosscut in Seattle is starting his non-profit with about $250,000, including $100,000 from Gates’ Foundation — that’s not enough in my opinion.
What I like about Voice of San Diego is that it asks to be judged on its work, on the quality of its investigative and enterprise reporting. That’s what I think should happen in whatever comes out of this conference in Portland. I know there were a lot of quiet people who were present at the conference who are bloggers and freelancers and who love the independence of doing their own journalism, or perhaps they were recently laid off or took buy-outs, or were recent graduates from J School. People who love the craft should be MOST interested in finding a way for the community to fund and sustain the most important part of the journalism we’re losing in Portland, and believe me, we will continue to lose it in the next decade. Demographics don’t lie about that.
It was perhaps naive and un-sophisticated of me to expect those who showed up at this conference to both recognize this need and all want to help. I WAS and AM disappointed that there are but 25 people who are working forward on the two groups going for the creation of a new entity to do this work. I fully support, however, the creation of an incubator and the “let a thousand flowers bloom” approach, and would like to help however I can in that lower-cost, more immediate effort. In my mind, funding is needed both places.
I know a big, new democratically-created non-profit entity coming out of an open public conference is more than a little idealistic, and that the conference was frustrating to more than me.
Even though I don’t like most of the journalism practiced today at the Portland Tribune and The Oregonian, and even though I detest the Pamplin/Clark politics, I think Steve Clark is right in a way — we have to continue to think about how we can get the “market” to monetize what is needed. Hence, my own belief in video journalism on the Internet AND on TV for this new non-profit organization. TV is where the money is today in PDX, not in Internet advertising and not so much in print advertising.
It felt good to write what I wrote on the WMTM website about the division in the conference, but it was perhaps self-indulgent. I know it is in the best interest of the community that divides of culture and age and gender and race be overcome and minimized wherever possible. It would be miraculous to see young and old come together to do the right things in Portland. I much admire the Bus Project where this actually happens.
Incidentally, Joe Smith and I are not baby boomers like the 47-year-old who writes above. We are in the Silent Generation. Just for the record. We are REALLY old white guys.

]]> By: Cornelius Swart http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7929 Cornelius Swart Sun, 29 Nov 2009 04:41:39 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7929 I agree with the others in their support of Buel and the organizers of the conference. As one professional (employed) journalist said after the conference, "It's hard to convince a room full of skeptics. Reporters are paid to be skeptical." So it's a tough go for anyone who tries to get something new off the ground, because, in my view, faith (or hope) is necessary to any new venture that is trying to be grassroots. A big public process is always going to draw a lot of fire, especially when it involves reporters and journalist who are use to putting others in the crosshairs. I'm glad to see that through the initial and immediate critique there might be some momentum building. Ultimately if its a grassroots approach that Portland is going to take towards addressing the current crisis of journalism it's going to take a whole lot of people to pull it off. Those of us who believe that journalism and the fourth estate are essential for democracy need to stick together other wise entropy may win the day. I agree with the others in their support of Buel and the organizers of the conference. As one professional (employed) journalist said after the conference, “It’s hard to convince a room full of skeptics. Reporters are paid to be skeptical.”
So it’s a tough go for anyone who tries to get something new off the ground, because, in my view, faith (or hope) is necessary to any new venture that is trying to be grassroots. A big public process is always going to draw a lot of fire, especially when it involves reporters and journalist who are use to putting others in the crosshairs.
I’m glad to see that through the initial and immediate critique there might be some momentum building. Ultimately if its a grassroots approach that Portland is going to take towards addressing the current crisis of journalism it’s going to take a whole lot of people to pull it off. Those of us who believe that journalism and the fourth estate are essential for democracy need to stick together other wise entropy may win the day.

]]> By: Sean Utt http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7912 Sean Utt Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:29:24 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7912 I only know about this event from the tidbits I've gleaned from the web, but the impression I've been picking up is that the problem here is the same as it has been across our economy. That problem is that the ways we have done things for so long in business are less effective than flipping a coin, but because the times were good we could afford to be really bad at business and congratulate ourselves on how smaht we all were at the same time. This applies to government as well. Now that times are not so good our superstitious rituals don't work anymore and so we do dance the economic rain dance harder. Because we all thought we were so smart, we never bothered to check to see if we were right, or to see if there was a better way to do things. As Walt Kelly said through Pogo so many years ago, "We have met the enemy and he is us." I only know about this event from the tidbits I’ve gleaned from the web, but the impression I’ve been picking up is that the problem here is the same as it has been across our economy. That problem is that the ways we have done things for so long in business are less effective than flipping a coin, but because the times were good we could afford to be really bad at business and congratulate ourselves on how smaht we all were at the same time. This applies to government as well. Now that times are not so good our superstitious rituals don’t work anymore and so we do dance the economic rain dance harder. Because we all thought we were so smart, we never bothered to check to see if we were right, or to see if there was a better way to do things. As Walt Kelly said through Pogo so many years ago, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

]]> By: Michael Andersen http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7911 Michael Andersen Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:43:51 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7911 BTW, I'd like to echo this from Tim. It's a great business-related point that helps push past the name-calling and into substantive matters. It concisely hits an important substantive disagreement in the room Saturday. I hope, if Ron ever responds to this thread, he'll address it. <blockquote>The techo-hip are focused on what’s cheap and within reach, and the “Old White Guys” are focused on solutions that are extremely difficult to implement.</blockquote> BTW, I’d like to echo this from Tim. It’s a great business-related point that helps push past the name-calling and into substantive matters. It concisely hits an important substantive disagreement in the room Saturday. I hope, if Ron ever responds to this thread, he’ll address it.

The techo-hip are focused on what’s cheap and within reach, and the “Old White Guys” are focused on solutions that are extremely difficult to implement.

]]> By: Michael Andersen http://ourpdx.com/2009/11/wmtm-redux-founder-ron-buel-responds/comment-page-1/#comment-7910 Michael Andersen Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:35:35 +0000 http://ourpdx.com/?p=7363#comment-7910 Hey, thanks for the nod, Abraham. And good points, Alex, Tim, Betsy, others. Like Alex, I sympathize with Buel's disappointment and frustration. But he definitely perceived a sharper divide than I think there really was. Hey, thanks for the nod, Abraham. And good points, Alex, Tim, Betsy, others.

Like Alex, I sympathize with Buel’s disappointment and frustration. But he definitely perceived a sharper divide than I think there really was.

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