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	<title>OurPDX &#187; beer</title>
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	<link>http://ourpdx.com</link>
	<description>Collaborative coverage of news and events, with a focus on community.</description>
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		<title>Le Tour de Chien 2009</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 04:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>morganpdx</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beerandbike]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lucky lab]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[portland dog events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tour de lab]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=6603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last weekend, 1500 bicyclists all donned doggy ears, noses and tails and biked from one Lucky Lab to another, shared doggy stories and even pulled their canine buddies around in the 2nd annual Tour de Lab.  I snapped a couple pics to give you a feel for the event:
The end of the ride was [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/1ae085b3e0aea412bfd1e9e85ebd6a06?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p>Last weekend, 1500 bicyclists all donned doggy ears, noses and tails and biked from one Lucky Lab to another, shared doggy stories and even pulled their canine buddies around in the 2nd annual Tour de Lab.  I snapped a couple pics to give you a feel for the event:</p>
<div class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 500px">
	<img alt="Some people had very special reasons for participating in this ride." src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3927406311_f852b3fd2b.jpg" width="500" height="375" />
	<p class="wp-caption-text">Some people had very special reasons for participating in this ride.</p>
</div>
<div class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 500px">
	<img alt="At the first rest stop, the Lucky Lab on Hawthorne." src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3432/3927406653_3ef8f2780b.jpg" width="500" height="375" />
	<p class="wp-caption-text">At the first rest stop, the Lucky Lab on Hawthorne.</p>
</div>
<div class="wp-caption alignnone" style="width: 375px">
	<img alt="The bikes were prolific at the end of the ride." src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3927407605_f2b1a16a75.jpg" width="375" height="500" />
	<p class="wp-caption-text">The bikes were prolific at the end of the ride.</p>
</div>
<p>The end of the ride was full of hot dogs, lovely swag, and of course BEER.  I mean&#8230;beer.  *ahem*  And of course, every rider goes home with their very own commemorative pint glass.</p>
<p>Me&#8230;I plan on having a set of four in two more years!
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>September 22, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/soap-dog-beer-tunes/" title="Soap + Dog / Beer * Tunes = &#8230;">Soap + Dog / Beer * Tunes = &#8230;</a> (0)</li><li>March 6, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/03/how-bout-a-pint-of-bitter-bitch/" title="How &#8217;bout a pint of Bitter Bitch">How &#8217;bout a pint of Bitter Bitch</a> (0)</li><li>October 29, 2008 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2008/10/a-bloggers-craft-brew-crawl-saturday/" title="A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday">A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday</a> (6)</li><li>July 5, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/" title="Taplister Launch Party">Taplister Launch Party</a> (0)</li><li>May 19, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/lucky-dog/" title="Lucky Dog">Lucky Dog</a> (0)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Taplister Launch Party</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beersignal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brew]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[taplister]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=6073</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Taplister, a new beer geek service, is having a launch party on Monday and they want you to join them. Taplister.com &#8212; and their sister application for the iPhone, BeerSignal &#8212; are pretty cool. If you&#8217;re at a local bar enjoying your favorite beer, you can tweet @Taplister naming the beer and location  (see [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p><a href="http://taplister.com">Taplister</a>, a new beer geek service, is having a launch party on Monday and they want you to join them. Taplister.com &#8212; and their sister application for the iPhone, BeerSignal &#8212; are pretty cool. If you&#8217;re at a local bar enjoying your favorite beer, you can tweet <a href="http://twitter.com/taplister">@Taplister</a> naming the beer and location  (see directions <a href="http://www.taplister.com/reviews/">here</a>), and it updates their database for others to search. </p>
<p>Then use the BeerSignal iPhone app to see where to go to find your favorite beer on tap (or visit the Taplister site if you don&#8217;t have an iPhone.) The first live user-updated beer on tap list in the city.  I&#8217;m pretty amazed at the entrepreneurship behind this. Beer apps in a beer town. Who knew?</p>
<p>Taplister Launch Party<br />
East Burn<br />
1800 East Burnside<br />
7 pm
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>September 16, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/" title="Le Tour de Chien 2009">Le Tour de Chien 2009</a> (0)</li><li>May 15, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/" title="Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent">Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent</a> (4)</li><li>May 8, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/dear-pdx-advice-guy-deviant-advice-friday-edition-3/" title="Dear PDX Advice Guy &#8211; Deviant Advice Friday Edition">Dear PDX Advice Guy &#8211; Deviant Advice Friday Edition</a> (0)</li><li>May 6, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/" title="Is Portland Beer City USA? Vote now!">Is Portland Beer City USA? Vote now!</a> (10)</li><li>April 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/" title="Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country">Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</a> (1)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 04:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Food/Drink]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[burgerville]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[food]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[salmon creek]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Twitter]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[vancouver]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[widmer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=5265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last week, a group of local Twitter users arranged a meetup at the Salmon Creek Burgerville.  Part of the motivation was just to meet some folks in real life, but the other reason for this particular location is that it&#8217;s the pilot location for beer and wine sales at Burgerville.
Don&#8217;t fear the beer.  [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/ccf2c20f7e4d79cf8bab45ec289fd925?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><div style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahockley/3534463559/" title="Burger(ville) and a Beer by ahockley, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2273/3534463559_2d874d132c_m.jpg" width="240" height="192" alt="Burger(ville) and a Beer" /></a></div>
<p>Last week, a group of local Twitter users arranged a meetup at the Salmon Creek Burgerville.  Part of the motivation was just to meet some folks in real life, but the other reason for this particular location is that it&#8217;s the pilot location for beer and wine sales at Burgerville.</p>
<p><b>Don&#8217;t fear the beer</b>.  When Burgerville announced they were venturing into alcohol sales, some folks were concerned that the &#8220;family friendly&#8221; atmosphere would change, or that suddenly that pepper bacon Tillamook cheeseburger would be accompanied by an abusive drunkard.  During our dinnertime meetup, I saw no evidence of any issues.  Apparently there is a two-drink limit (per four hour period) so I don&#8217;t think anyone is going to end up drunk at Burgerville.</p>
<p>As part of the pilot program, they&#8217;re serving local brew (I had a Widmer Hefeweizen) from bottles (although it&#8217;s poured into a glass).  I chatted a bit with one of the managers who indicated that he&#8217;d prefer to be serving draught, but at this point they&#8217;re trying to gauge interest and sales.</p>
<p>Burgerville &#8220;gets&#8221; social media.  Shortly after starting to tweet about the meetup, the <a href="http://twitter.com/burgervilleusa">@BurgervilleUSA</a> account joined in the discussion.  When we arrived at the restaurant, the manager made us feel welcome, stopping to chat with us several times.  Another manager who runs two other Burgerville locations was there as well, talking with us about Twitter, his usage of it, and the value of Twitter to businesses.  It sounds like the meetups might turn into a monthly thing, meeting on the first Thursday at 6pm.</p>
<p>If you enjoy your local delicious Burgerville food and also enjoy some local beer and wine, drop by the Salmon Creek Burgerville and buy a glass.  Hopefully the beer and wine sales spread throughout the Burgerville chain.
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>July 31, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/if-this-is-churchs-call-me-atheist/" title="If This is Church&#8217;s, Call Me Atheist">If This is Church&#8217;s, Call Me Atheist</a> (4)</li><li>June 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/06/a-chat-with-burgerville/" title="A Chat with Burgerville">A Chat with Burgerville</a> (1)</li><li>April 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/" title="Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country">Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</a> (1)</li><li>December 2, 2008 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2008/12/will-social-media-kill-the-local-pub/" title="Will social media kill the local pub?">Will social media kill the local pub?</a> (6)</li><li>October 29, 2008 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2008/10/a-bloggers-craft-brew-crawl-saturday/" title="A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday">A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday</a> (6)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Dear PDX Advice Guy &#8211; Deviant Advice Friday Edition</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/dear-pdx-advice-guy-deviant-advice-friday-edition-3/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/dear-pdx-advice-guy-deviant-advice-friday-edition-3/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 07:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Endless Monkeys</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Advice]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bacn]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pix]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pole dancing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Travel Portland]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=5179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear PDX Advice Guy
So Mother&#8217;s Day is coming up and I don&#8217;t know what to get Mom. HELP!!!!!!
-FJ, Gladstone

Oh man, FJ, you have lousy luck. This is Deviant Advice Friday and you&#8217;ve got a Mommy&#8217;s Day question? This is So not going to work out well for you. I could actually go so far as [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/eb06e545c9bcd375c1c455243a3e802b?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p><em>Dear PDX Advice Guy</p>
<p>So Mother&#8217;s Day is coming up and I don&#8217;t know what to get Mom. HELP!!!!!!</p>
<p>-FJ, Gladstone</em><br />
<span id="more-5179"></span><br />
Oh man, FJ, you have lousy luck. This is Deviant Advice Friday and you&#8217;ve got a Mommy&#8217;s Day question? This is So not going to work out well for you. I could actually go so far as to tell you that this advice column will probably result in your Mother deciding that giving birth to you was a horrible mistake because you can&#8217;t take 5 minutes out of your &#8220;busy&#8221; life to get her something special on one of the two days of the year where she needs to be thought of first (yes genius, the other is her birthday.. you DO remember that, right?).</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m kidding. I&#8217;ll get you sorted and even make it a tiny bit deviant because, well, that&#8217;s what I do. Let&#8217;s do this&#8230;</p>
<p>First off, your mom is tired of stupid flowers and oversize cards with some crayon drawing of  some bear going &#8220;I Wuv You Diiiiiis Much.&#8221; If you buy Mom something like that and you&#8217;re over the age of 2, then shoot yourself. Unless you have a kid and you&#8217;re buying that card for your kid to give to Mom.. then, by all means, go nuts with it. So what to give her instead? Easy: Get her freaking DRUNK!</p>
<p>Face it kiddo, you&#8217;re in Portland and <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/">we&#8217;re pretty much headed for a Beer City USA declaration</a> anyways, so why not take advantage of it? <a href="http://www.travelportland.com/meeting_planners/microbrew_guide.html">Check out this list of craft breweries</a> from the awesome folks over at <a href="http://www.travelportland.com/">Travel Portland</a> (in fact, why not <a href="http://twitter.com/travelportland">follow them on Twitter</a> as well?). This will give you a good idea of where to check for specialty brews for Mom. </p>
<p>So now you&#8217;ve managed to make Mom a heartfelt six-pack. Mom can&#8217;t dine on just beer alone, she needs something hearty to go with that. I have one word for you my friend: <a href="http://bacn.com/">Bacn</a>. No, not &#8220;bacon,&#8221; but <a href="http://bacn.com/">Bacn</a>.  Why not give the gift that keeps on giving all year long? That&#8217;s right, hook Mom up with a membership to the <a href="http://bacn.com/bacon-of-the-month-club/">Bac&#8217;n of the Month Club</a>. Not only do you get the satisfaction of helping a local business out, but you also know that your gift will help Mom jam her arteries full of delicious pork goodness and, in that scenario, everyone wins.</p>
<p>Of course, Mom will likely need to burn off some of that energy. You&#8217;ve got two choices. Oh sure, you COULD go the &#8220;safe route&#8221; and get Mom a membership over at <a href="http://thegreenmicrogym.com/">The Green Microgym</a> and revel in the fact that when Mom works out, she&#8217;s helping the environment out. Seriously, how cool is that? You&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s the easy way out. You&#8217;re wanting something deviant. Nothing quite SHRIEKS &#8220;Honor Mom&#8221; and &#8220;Class&#8221; like pole-dancing. PDX is just bursting with pole dance facilities, but PDX Advice Guy recommends two: <a href="http://www.ecdysiaststudio.com/">Ecdysiast</a> and <a href="http://www.pdxpoledivas.com/">Diva Den Studio</a>. Honestly, why shouldn&#8217;t Dad enjoy Mother&#8217;s day a bit as well? After all, Mom didn&#8217;t exactly do this alone you know?</p>
<p>So Mom is now drunk, packed with bacn, and worn out from pole-dancing (or making electricity, cause your Mom&#8217;s cool like that). What&#8217;s left? Damn right, dessert! And there isn&#8217;t much better than making a special dessert for Mom over at <a href="http://www.pixpatisserie.com/">Pix</a> (yes, <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/dear-pdx-advice-guy-9/">I&#8217;ve mentioned them before</a>.. but I seriously LOVE this place). Join one of the best damn dessert joints in town on Mother&#8217;s day (northside only, 3901 N Williams AVE) from 11am to 3pm. Set mom up with a mimosa on the patio and let her watch her little darling make her a dessert with expert assistance from the decadently devious chefs. The best part? This little indulgence runs a paltry 12 bucks. Seriously. That oversized card? That thing&#8217;s like six bucks, so this deal is a DEAL.</p>
<p>And there you have it FJ. A guaran-damn-teed foolproof Mother&#8217;s Day to confirm to Mom that spending 36 hours of hellacious labor to birth you is still worth it. </p>
<p>Of course, OurPDX is nothing without i&#8217;s readers. So, to you all, I want to wish all Moms, Moms-to-Be, Grammas, and all things in between a heartfelt &#8220;Happy Mothers Day&#8221; and to remind everyone that Mom&#8217;s day is really EVERY day cause Mom&#8217;s good like that, yo.</p>
<p>Finally, dear readers, it&#8217;s your turn. Let&#8217;s hear YOUR suggestions for a Memorable Mother&#8217;s Day. Maybe you can think of something more deviant? Perhaps you like tradition? Leave some comments down there and let&#8217;s get some ideas out there. And if you&#8217;ve got yourself a situation in need of some meditation, then why not <a href="mailto:pdxadviceguy@gmail.com">email me</a> (or <a href="http://www.twitter.com/pdxadviceguy">follow me up on the ole Twitter</a>) and let&#8217;s see what I can do for YOU.
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>September 16, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/" title="Le Tour de Chien 2009">Le Tour de Chien 2009</a> (0)</li><li>July 5, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/" title="Taplister Launch Party">Taplister Launch Party</a> (0)</li><li>May 15, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/" title="Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent">Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent</a> (4)</li><li>May 6, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/" title="Is Portland Beer City USA? Vote now!">Is Portland Beer City USA? Vote now!</a> (10)</li><li>April 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/" title="Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country">Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</a> (1)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<item>
		<title>Is Portland Beer City USA? Vote now!</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 00:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Feature]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Food/Drink]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer city]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[poll]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/is-portland-beer-city-usa-vote-now/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[

DSCN7550
Originally uploaded by dieselboi
Everyone, Portland needs your help right now!  Do you drink beer?  Do you love that Portland is truly a beer town?  We have more breweries in this city per capita than anywhere else in the nation &#8211; a total of 38. Yet, we are in a neck and neck [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><div style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><a title="photo sharing" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselboi/2208102888/"><img style="border: solid 2px #000000;" src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2107/2208102888_5435efa1b8_m.jpg" alt="" /></a><br />
<span style="font-size: 0.9em; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselboi/2208102888/">DSCN7550</a></span><br />
Originally uploaded by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/dieselboi/">dieselboi</a></div>
<p>Everyone, Portland needs your help right now!  Do you drink beer?  Do you love that Portland is truly a beer town?  We have more breweries in this city per capita than anywhere else in the nation &#8211; a total of 38. Yet, we are in a neck and neck battle with Asheville, NC for the classification of Beer City, USA.</p>
<p>Please go vote for Portland in <a href="http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-241-Beer-Examiner~y2009m3d19-Examiner-Beer-City-USA-Poll--which-city-ranks-as-your-best" target="_blank">this poll being put on by Beer Examiner.</a> Portland needs your vote.  Don&#8217;t let Asheville, NC take this glory away from us.
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>September 16, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/" title="Le Tour de Chien 2009">Le Tour de Chien 2009</a> (0)</li><li>July 5, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/" title="Taplister Launch Party">Taplister Launch Party</a> (0)</li><li>May 15, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/" title="Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent">Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent</a> (4)</li><li>May 8, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/dear-pdx-advice-guy-deviant-advice-friday-edition-3/" title="Dear PDX Advice Guy &#8211; Deviant Advice Friday Edition">Dear PDX Advice Guy &#8211; Deviant Advice Friday Edition</a> (0)</li><li>April 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/" title="Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country">Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</a> (1)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Food/Drink]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[News/Views]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brewers alliance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bridgeport]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[deschuttes]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[full sail]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[microbrewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[rogue]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[top breweries]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[widmer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=4759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today&#8217;s news brought us yet another ranking.  Oregon placed 5 breweries in the top 50 breweries in the country according to the Brewer&#8217;s Association &#8211; Widmer (known as Craft Brewers Alliance); Deschuttes Brewing; Full Sail Brewing; Rogue Brewing and finally Bridgeport Brewing.  This list is based on 2008 beer sales volume.  I&#8217;m so glad the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p>Today&#8217;s news brought us yet another ranking.  Oregon placed 5 breweries in the top 50 breweries in the country according to the <a href="http://www.beertown.org/ba/media_2009/Top_50_Release.html" target="_blank">Brewer&#8217;s Association</a> &#8211; <a href="http://widmer.com/Default.aspx" target="_blank">Widmer</a> (known as <a href="http://www.craftbrewers.com/About.aspx" target="_blank">Craft Brewers Alliance</a>); <a href="http://www.deschutesbrewery.com/splash/default.aspx" target="_blank">Deschuttes Brewing</a>; <a href="http://www.fullsailbrewing.com/default.cfm" target="_blank">Full Sail Brewing</a>; <a href="http://www.rogue.com/" target="_blank">Rogue Brewing</a> and finally <a href="http://www.bridgeportbrew.com/" target="_blank">Bridgeport Brewing</a>.  This list is based on 2008 beer sales volume.  I&#8217;m so glad the list is from all over the state and includes one completely employee owned brewery &#8211; Full Sail.  All of these brewers make great beer and support local brewing efforts &#8211; Rogue has its own Hop farm.</p>
<p>One thing I should note.  The news broke via the <a href="http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2009/04/13/daily10.html?surround=lfn" target="_blank">Portland Business Journal</a> whose headline was &#8220;Oregon places 4 breweries on list of &#8230;.&#8221;  As you can see, I point out 5.  The original list from the Brewer&#8217;s Alliance has Craft Brewers Alliance in Woodenville, Wa, instead of Portland.  If you go to their site, you will see they state they are headquartered in Portland.  The Portland Business Journal just repeated what they read and didn&#8217;t realize that CBA is a result of Widmer and Red Hook merging. I will give them the benefit of the doubt here.</p>
<p>Now for the question of the hour &#8211; or should it be questions?  How many of the top 50 breweries have you had a beer from?  How many have you actually visited?  Me? I&#8217;ve sampled from 29 of the list and visited 7.</p>
<p>Another list was also published-  top <a href="http://www.beertown.org/ba/media_2009/Top_50_Release.html" target="_blank">50 Craft Brewers</a> &#8211; defined as producing less than 2 million barrels.  Oregon placed 5 breweries on the list, replacing Widmer from above with McMennamins.
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>October 29, 2008 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2008/10/a-bloggers-craft-brew-crawl-saturday/" title="A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday">A Blogger&#8217;s craft brew crawl &#8211; Saturday</a> (6)</li><li>February 18, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/say-no-to-the-new-beer-tax/" title="Say No! to the new beer tax">Say No! to the new beer tax</a> (2)</li><li>November 12, 2008 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2008/11/mens-fitness-mag-hates-good-beer/" title="Men&#8217;s Fitness mag. hates good beer!">Men&#8217;s Fitness mag. hates good beer!</a> (3)</li><li>May 15, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/05/burgerville-beer-twitter-excellent/" title="Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent">Burgerville + Beer + Twitter = Excellent</a> (4)</li><li>March 6, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/03/how-bout-a-pint-of-bitter-bitch/" title="How &#8217;bout a pint of Bitter Bitch">How &#8217;bout a pint of Bitter Bitch</a> (0)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>How &#8217;bout a pint of Bitter Bitch</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/03/how-bout-a-pint-of-bitter-bitch/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/03/how-bout-a-pint-of-bitter-bitch/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Food/Drink]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[barleywine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[festeroon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lucky lab]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[microbrew]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.com/?p=3953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The 2009 Barleywine Festeroon is coming to the Lucky Lab this weekend and will showcase Barleywines from 30+ local and national brewers.  What is Barleywine?  According to the Beer Judge Certification Program, Barleywine falls under the beer category of Old Ale.  There is a specific subcategory for American Barleywine because we&#8217;re special.  A Barleywine usually [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p>The 2009 Barleywine Festeroon is coming to the Lucky Lab this weekend and will showcase Barleywines from 30+ local and national brewers.  What is Barleywine?  According to the Beer Judge Certification Program, <a href="http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style19.php#1c" target="_blank">Barleywine </a>falls under the beer category of Old Ale.  There is a specific subcategory for American Barleywine because we&#8217;re special.  A Barleywine usually has a higher alcohol content &#8211; 8%+ and will exhibit a strong intense malt flavor.  I usually think of them as IPAs on steroids.  If you don&#8217;t watch out, they will sneak up behind you, clobber you on the head, stuff you in the trunk and leave you in a cemetery in Mexico if you&#8217;re not careful.</p>
<p>This weekend at Lucky Lab in NW, brewers such as Widmer, Sierra Nevada, Astoria, Bridgeport, Dick&#8217;s, Hopworks, Ft. George and others will present and taste Barleywines with names like Old Knucklehead, Dogfather, Horn of the Beer, Old Foghorn, Train Wreck, Old Ruffian and others.  Just the names make you want to try it right?  Bareleywines are special and should be enjoyed.  To have the opportunity to taste numerous interpretations of the style is awesome.  You may never see some of these brews at your local bar or the store.</p>
<p>A full list of Barleywines being presented can be had over at <a href="http://www.portlandbeer.org/blog/2009/03/updated-beer-list-for-2009-barleywine.html" target="_blank">PortlandBeer.org</a>.</p>
<p>2009 Barleywine Festeroon<br />
March 6-7;   noon to 10pm<br />
Admission is free; 4oz tastes are $1.75<br />
Lucky Lab Brewery, 1945 NW Quimby
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		<title>No new tax on Beer party</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/no-new-tax-on-beer-party/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/no-new-tax-on-beer-party/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 02:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Events]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Feature]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer tax]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Dragon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[microbrewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[protest]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/2009/02/no-new-tax-on-beer-party/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[


large_no_taxation.jpg


The Green Dragon is hosting a ceremonial &#8220;dumping of the beer&#8221; on Thursday to protest the 1900% proposed beer tax being discussed in Salem.  I love that they point out that the original Green Dragon in Boston was the site for revolutionaries during he war for independence.   This is a battle we [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><div style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;">
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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselboi/3309869647/">large_no_taxation.jpg</a><br />
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<p>The Green Dragon is hosting a ceremonial &#8220;dumping of the beer&#8221; on Thursday to protest the 1900% proposed beer tax being discussed in Salem.  I love that they point out that the original Green Dragon in Boston was the site for revolutionaries during he war for independence.   This is a battle we must win.  </p>
<p>The festivities begin at 5pm and during the event you will be able to learn more about the proposed tax and write letters to your state representatives.  Further, just to drive the point home, they will raise their pint prices to 2010 levels reflecting what may be the price if the tax is approved.</p>
<p>Not Taxation without Representation<br />
Anti-Beer tax party<br />
Green Dragon<br />
SE 9th/Yamhill<br />
Thursday, Feb 26th. 5pm.<br />
<br clear="all" />
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<h3  class="related_post_title">Related Posts</h3><ul class="related_post"><li>February 18, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/say-no-to-the-new-beer-tax/" title="Say No! to the new beer tax">Say No! to the new beer tax</a> (2)</li><li>April 14, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/04/oregon-places-5-breweries-in-top-50-for-the-country/" title="Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country">Oregon places 5 breweries in top 50 for the country</a> (1)</li><li>September 16, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/09/le-tour-de-chien-2009/" title="Le Tour de Chien 2009">Le Tour de Chien 2009</a> (0)</li><li>July 5, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/07/taplister-launch-party/" title="Taplister Launch Party">Taplister Launch Party</a> (0)</li><li>June 25, 2009 -- <a href="http://ourpdx.com/2009/06/happy-birthday-to-us/" title="Happy Birthday To Us!">Happy Birthday To Us!</a> (14)</li></ul>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Say No! to the new beer tax</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/say-no-to-the-new-beer-tax/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/say-no-to-the-new-beer-tax/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 03:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dieselboi</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Feature]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer tax]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[microbrewery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[no beer tax]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[tax]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/2009/02/say-no-to-the-new-beer-tax/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[

DSCN7550
Originally uploaded by dieselboi

This pint of beer may not be available in years to come if the Oregon Legislature has its way.  In order to make up for a budget shortfall, they are recommending a 1900% increase in the per barrel beer tax.  Think about that?  Going from around $2 a barrel [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e71e18e73452ee4f6a0802e847745ae3?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><div style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;"><a title="photo sharing" href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselboi/2208102888/"><img style="border: solid 2px #000000;" src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2107/2208102888_5435efa1b8_m.jpg" alt="" /></a></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 0.9em; margin-top: 0px;"><br />
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dieselboi/2208102888/">DSCN7550</a></p>
<p>Originally uploaded by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/dieselboi/">dieselboi</a><br />
</span></div>
<p>This pint of beer may not be available in years to come if the Oregon Legislature has its way.  In order to make up for a budget shortfall, they are recommending a 1900% increase in the per barrel beer tax.  Think about that?  Going from around $2 a barrel in taxes to $50 overnight.  Think the brewers will survive?  I think not.  Oh, and this would only pertain to beer made in Oregon, so we&#8217;re shooting ourselves in the foot while allowing out of state breweries to swoop in and stock the shelves with product much cheaper.</p>
<p>Oregon has 95 microbreweries, more than any other state per-capita.  Why would the legislature want to go after such a thriving business?  It doesn&#8217;t make sense.  I know we&#8217;re in a tough economy, but moves like this will kill an industry, not just shore up a budget for a few years.  Five years from now, when the economy has recovered, do you think there will still be breweries around?  Probably not.  Or, they would have moved to the border states where the taxes are lower.  I could see Vancouver becoming a micro-brew haven.  Hmmm.  Any good warehouse space up there for cheap?</p>
<p>The <a href="http://oregonbeer.org/blog/" target="_blank">Oregon Brewer&#8217;s Guild</a> has a <a href="http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/NoNewOregonBeerTax" target="_blank">petition </a>up citing specific real costs of this measure in jobs and industry.  If you think like I do, please go out and sign the petition.  Further, contact your state representatives and the guv and tell they you would much rather drink Hopworks and Bridgeport as opposed to Sam Adams and Coors.
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		<title>The Band: How to Attract Talented Band Members</title>
		<link>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/the-band-how-to-attract-talented-band-members/</link>
		<comments>http://ourpdx.com/2009/02/the-band-how-to-attract-talented-band-members/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 20:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Motor Jeffries</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Music]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[friends]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[jam sessions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[trade secrets]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ourpdx.net/?p=3479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am going to reveal some trade secrets.
To those of you who know how to do this already, you are going to say &#8220;Well duh&#8221; because it works the same in industry, the blogosphere, etc. For other musicians out there struggling, hopefully some lights will go off and this will save you some frustration. Please [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p></p><img style='float: left; margin-right: 10px; border: none;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/117c117e715a87e7a8d9aaf52194caaf?rating=X&amp;default=http://use.perl.org/images/pix.gif' alt='No Gravatar' width=40 height=40/><p>I am going to reveal some trade secrets.</p>
<p>To those of you who know how to do this already, you are going to say &#8220;Well duh&#8221; because it works the same in industry, the blogosphere, etc. For other musicians out there struggling, hopefully some lights will go off and this will save you some frustration. Please read my previous posts on good manners before proceeding, as you will be sniffed out as a rat if your intentions are not pure. The following technique will also require a time commitment on your part, so while it may get you to where you want to be more quickly, I can offer you no shortcuts to success.</p>
<p>I moved to Portland in 1996 with big dreams of taking the band I was in at the time to the city and making it big. Countless others were doing the same thing. This was on the tail end of the grunge years, and record industry scouts were signing bands left and right. Portland was supposed to be &#8220;the next big thing&#8221;.  Hazel, Heatmiser, Elliott Smith, Quasi, Pond and others were getting lots of attention.</p>
<p>Problem 1: Incomplete Roster<br />
Our first problem was that only 4 out of 6 band members moved to Portland, and one homesick member left a few months later to return to Idaho. So that wiped out half of our roster.<br />
<span id="more-3479"></span><br />
Problem 2: No Focused Vision<br />
The Idaho incarnation of the band had a folk flavor that featured three-part harmony. With only half the band in Portland, no rhythm section, and one of the singers gone, we had lost our sound. We also were tired of those songs, and wanted to try something different, but we didn&#8217;t know what that was. It&#8217;s hard to sell your idea to new members when you don&#8217;t know what it is you are trying to do.</p>
<p>Problem 3: We Didn&#8217;t Know Anyone<br />
We had no family or friends here and had only been to Portland a few times.  The only musical connection I had was a CD I had gotten while I was in Idaho by the Portland band called The Orange Astronauts. They had a song that said, &#8220;I&#8217;m going down to The Space Room &#8211; I&#8217;ve got to find my space.&#8221; I eventually found out about the deadly Bloody Marys at The Space Room, but I never found the Orange Astronauts. I eventually lost the CD. If anyone knows where these guys are, please let me know, I would like to meet them.</p>
<p>Problem 4: We Didn&#8217;t Do Our Homework<br />
It took awhile to learn where the cool clubs were and who the good bands were. We didn&#8217;t know which part of town to live in and struggled to find jobs. The Internet solves most of these problems for young whipper snappers today, but this was 1996. A few trips over to Portland to check things out sure would have helped.  A few copies of the Willamette Week would have helped.</p>
<p>Problem 5: We Were Shy<br />
This may make your artsy-fartsy music more introspective and deep, but it will hurt you if you are too terrified to reach out to other musicians.</p>
<p>Problem 6:  Lousy Networking Skills<br />
We needed a drummer and did the worst thing you can do: we hung flyers and posted ads. Good drummers are in demand, and they won&#8217;t reply to unknown bands with no direction or reputation. We were so stupid that we hung a flyer on the door of our apartment stating that we were musicians in search of  _______.  Someone read the flyer, but it wasn&#8217;t a drummer. A few weeks later, we were robbed of most of our valuables, including our musical instruments. Welcome to the big city.</p>
<p>Problem 7: Wasted Time<br />
Trust your gut instinct and immediately reject flaky losers. Do not give them the benefit of the doubt. Do not think that their style will adapt to yours and that they will eventually see the light and have good taste and play appropriately. If it is not working out, call it a day. Likewise, you need to recognize when stylistic differences are too great to proceed. We had one guy jam with us who played the first 4 songs perfectly. Our jaws hit the floor because we thought we had just scored. Then he stopped playing and said, &#8220;I can&#8217;t do this. You guys are good, and I really appreciate that you called me, but this music is not my style. It&#8217;s just not for me.&#8221; Then he immediately packed up his stuff and left. We were offended and perplexed. He was absolutely correct though. He was a jazz guy and even though he could play circles around our tunes, he hated the music. Looking back, we had totally misled him on the phone when we started talking about bands that we *liked* but that we in fact sounded nothing like.</p>
<p>OK, so those were some of the problems. There are others, but I want to get to the trade secrets.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s very simple really:</p>
<p>Secret 1: Get Over Your Shyness<br />
Otherwise you are going to be sitting alone at home watching TV and hating your life.</p>
<p>Secret 2: Swallow Your Pride<br />
You are going to make mistakes and fall down. You are going to get rejected and have your heart broken. Some people will hate what you have to offer and will snub you. The hero gets back up and perseveres until she/he gets it right. </p>
<p>Secret 3: Network<br />
Go to shows, meet people.</p>
<p>Secret 4: Hang Out<br />
Drink beers with musicians at the bar. Buy the band a round after they have packed up their stuff and have sat down to watch the next band. Shoot the breeze, ask them about a song that you liked that they played. A few months down the road, you may invite them over so you can listen to records together. As the night wears on, someone will eventually break out a guitar,  and a little music will start. This is a non-threatening way to see if you can make music together. Trust your gut.</p>
<p>Secret 5: Join or Form a Tribe<br />
A very special house used to exist behind the Safeway on Hawthorne. For years, a very loving, talented musician named Jarvis Trementosy (Bohemian Onslaught, Digital Knife, <a href="http://thegoldengreats.com/">The Golden Greats</a>) used to host regular jam sessions over there. Eventually I got invited to hang out over there. I cannot tell you how many bands have formed and reformed from that initial batch of musicians. Someone else can help me out here, but I would conservatively estimate a dozen bands. We all owe Jarvis a huge debt of gratitude. He plays trumpet now for The Golden Greats. I remember the first month that he got the trumpet.  I get nostalgic thinking about those great jam sessions. Some of them sucked. Some of them were magic. All of them were fun. There was always lots of beer drinking, laughter, and camaraderie.</p>
<p>Secret 6: Time It Correctly<br />
Just because you&#8217;ve identified Player X as your dream band member, the timing may not be right for him or her. The good ones are always in multiple projects already. You may have to wait your turn.</p>
<p>Secret 7: Focus<br />
Know what you want to do before you approach the player. Have a vision. You can&#8217;t swim the whole ocean, you over-eager fool.</p>
<p>Secret 8: Start a Side Project<br />
Pitch it as a recording session or a side project. Tell that person that you want them to play on a track that you are recording. If the track works out and everyone has fun, you might be able to talk them into doing a one-off show. If that one goes well, you might do a couple more shows. It&#8217;s the same thing with dating: you don&#8217;t ask a girl to marry you the first time you take her to a movie. Take your time, and don&#8217;t come across as needy, overly eager, or too ambitious. Side projects that don&#8217;t have the burden of a weekly practice and all the other grind that comes along with it are often a lot more easy to get going than a full blown project where you are asking them to commit. They might see it as a welcome relief where they get to relax and goof around a bit. Side projects also give people a graceful way to duck in and out as things get busier with their main band. </p>
<p>Secret 9: Play Multiple Instruments<br />
Take the time to learn to play more than one instrument, and then be patient. Practice the second instrument at jam sessions so people can judge for themselves if you still suck or if you are improving. You might love a band and wish that you could be in it. Then one day their keyboard player quits and you offer to fill in for awhile while they look around. If they like you, they will keep you. So instead of you being jealous that you are not in the band, all of a sudden they are trying to entice you to stay in the project. How&#8217;s that for a reversal of fortunes? Good times. It works both ways. You might be surprised how many people can play more than one instrument. Make sure to ask people this question.</p>
<p>Secret 10: Make Lasting Friendships<br />
You are building a lifelong network of friends. Don&#8217;t forget about that.  If you are doing it right, you end up with a de facto musical guild. All those years when you were on the outside; you wake up one day and everywhere you look you see friends. That&#8217;s when you know you have arrived and are on the inside. If you stick around town, you are going to love these guys for the rest of your life. Avoid bitter band break ups if something doesn&#8217;t work out. A little time and you will be back with another shuffled up handful of them doing something else when the opportunity arises.</p>
<p>I can honestly say that with my new band, I am honored to be playing with some of the most talented people I know, and also some of the nicest people that I know. We have a blast together. I get to hang out with my friends doing something that we love doing. It&#8217;s the same thing with whatever hobbies that you have. You can&#8217;t ask for anything more than that.</p>
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